I did not suggest ignoring religious bollocks, merely rejecting it, utterly & completely, since it has done immeasurable evil & caused untold suffering over the centuries. If you are in favour of deliberately using such social engineering techniques as part of your zero state project, then you and your associates are evil. As evil as the RC church, the Taliban & the communists [Note that I'm carefully NOT mentioning the other lot - Godwin & all that]
]]>Well, unless you think there is some mystical quantum woowoo going on in the brain most measures of the brains processing power is less than an exaflops, which should be available for the various whole (Human) brain emulation projects within 7 years. Given that I am talking about technology at least 50 to 100 years hence I think I am the conservative one here.
]]>Here's the critical, unspoken question: how does anyone know that a totally detailed simulation of your brain would be conscious enough to think it was you? Similarly, how could you tell that a well-trained neural network wasn't you?
In both cases, the simulation is not you, because it's outside your skull, and it certainly won't share its internal state with your brain. A copy is a copy, no matter how it comes to exist.
]]>dirk @ 308 I don't think you previously specified the computing power required, & the projected amount available in the near future, I may be wrong & you may be correct, after all. However, remember that you still have the problem of "sufficiently good = small error-bars" measurement of those states. Good luck with it.
Meanwhile I note that you are carefully NOT addressing my charge of deliberately using "religious" style programming on people, and that this is evil. Who gave you permission? Whom among your victims will have given you their informed consent? WHat make you think that "It will be different this time, because our herts are pure" [SNARK] ?? What gives you any right at all to do this to others, anyay?
I await your answer with interest.
]]>Why? Because there are 10^(10^16) of them? Quite do-able if distributed across the multiverse.
"A copy is a copy, no matter how it comes to exist."
Just like the copy of you now is merely a (poor) copy of the original of 10 minutes ago.
]]>That's merely your own value judgement. Others believe differently, including me.
"Who gave you permission?"
Do I need permission?
"Whom among your victims will have given you their informed consent?"
Everyone who reads the book and agrees with its sentiments.
"What gives you any right at all to do this to others, anyay?"
Free speech
]]>YOU MISSED THE POINT What about those who get or are subjected to your programme, whether they like it, or not? If it's a religion (& it is) it will behave like one - really nasty.
You claim "Free Speech" Fair do's. One SLIGHT problem - it is not your speech that bothers me - it is your putative future actions based on said religious belief, and doing unto others. I saw you palm that card!
]]>"If it's a religion (& it is) it will behave like one - really nasty."
Yes - we must get rid of those evil Jains.
]]>Yes, I've met a couple of Jains - very clever... Now what about xtianity & islam & communism? Even Jainism subjects women, to some extent .....
]]>Religion is the belief that beliefs matter in and of themselves, thus that life is somehow a filtering of humanity on the basis of personality, implying that it is some world beyond this one that matters. The key statement of religion is the "just testing you," of an evil person trying to persuade you to evil, then resorting to an excuse when called on it. Theirs is the same kind of behavior and thinking that fills our world with punishment responses for trusting and reaching out a hand when we see a problem like someone being abused(assuming it is a trap laid by the evil to catch the good), thus driving us into ourselves.
My minister said yesterday, "If only it were all so simple, if only there were evil people somewhere insidiously committing evil deeds, and it were necessary only to separate them from us and destroy them. But the line dividing good and evil cuts through the heart of every human being." Good sentiment, and we all need to watch and improve ourselves, but I think there are evil people, consciously making life worse than it is, not casually, but with focus and forethought.
I think they are working for space aliens who are our rivals for the job of favored servants of the Galactic AI, unable to touch us directly while we are being cultivated to be scabs, their replacements due to their rebelliousness. But I don't think my beliefs matter. Just a thought, and a perfectly reasonable one if you really think about it. What, are you FOR the space aliens?
Re Social Darwinism Social Darwinists are powerfull still, and I think we should all be prepared to play their game, even if we don't agree with their theory. There's no such thing as virtuous defeat. Does that belief constitute putting belief above behavior?
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